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| Oct 04, 2008 07:15 am |
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| if i'm a goth, then my dad must be "The Gothfather". |
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Oct 04, 2008 03:10 pm
Edited : Oct 04, 2008 03:14 pm |
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then its settled, my attidude torwards you is no longer in effects. cheers.
and for you lil emo girl...how bout this, your emo, writing about goth, lets forget about goth for a sec. do you even know any emo music? i remember a time when emo was a cute and small little group, now that ozzy's daughter dresses emo/scene,and other "important" people of LA and hollywood as well, EVERYONE seems to love it, and thus turning into a fad, so, my question to you, why bother telling people about goth, when in fact you prolly don't evnen know why your "emo" |
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| Oct 10, 2008 03:21 am |
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I was not going to respond to this at first. But after spending the past 2 hours scrolling through everyone's responses I feel like I should reward myself by posting something about it before I call it a night.
I believe the question asked was: What is Goth to you?
Not what is the true definition of Goth. But what is each individuals opinion of Goth.
All I have seen so far is some people bashing each other based on how they were educated on the subject. Whether through personal experience or by what others have told them. I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer to this question.
In my own PERSONAL opinion Goth goes beyond the clothes and the make up. It is a dark personality trait that some possess and some just don't. Some show their darker side through fashion and music while others find alternative ways of doing it. But in the end still embracing and accepting each others way of expressing their inner darkness.
There is a difference between Gothic and BEING Goth. Again this is just my opinion based off my education of it. While reading through responses, I took the time to look some things up. Perhaps some may find it an interesting read.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Gothic
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gothic
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=4&term=goth
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Goths
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Gothic |
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| Oct 10, 2008 06:09 am |
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| I say it again: You're PERSONAL opinion about it is worth nothing since it all ready have been defined since the early 80's so YOUR opinion is NOT correct unless you say that it's a subculture and a musical genre. |
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Oct 10, 2008 08:27 am
Edited : Oct 10, 2008 09:56 am |
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LOL dja! You are a character! It is very obvious that you did not click on any of the links that I provided for educational purposes. So while you are so busy looking up and demanding the exact definition of exact words, perhaps you should also take the time to look up the exact definition of the word "opinion".
So again I will say...
I believe the question asked was: "What is Goth to you?" Not what is the true definition of Goth. But what is each individuals opinion of Goth. Now if the original question asked would have been, What is Goth to you since it was defined in the '80s I would agree with you in part. It is a subculture and it is a genre of music. It is also so much more than just these two things. Consider this for a moment, what did "goth" bands (before the 80's) define goth as for them to create the music? Please allow me to refer you to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture
I don't know. Perhaps the problem is that there is a breakdown in communication considering we are from different countries. Perhaps it is because you are too inexorable and tenacious to look outside your own little box for a brief moment and face the fact that an educated opinion should be based off more than just what your musician friends tell you.
Now, I did not say that you are wrong. Nor did I say that your opinion now holds #1 spot on my list of "Things I couldn't truly give two S**ts about". How can you tell me that a personal belief or opinion is wrong? I am quite perplexed by this.
In conclusion, while you are busy looking up all the wonderful resources that I provided also take a moment to read this as well. If you would like to continue this discussion I would be more than willing to do so.
http://www.gothicsubculture.com/what-is-gothic.php
You were never on the debate team were you? |
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| Oct 10, 2008 01:18 pm |
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I read your post but they were all pretty damn irrelevant, as Goth as this topic was supposed to talk about is the Goth subculture and the musical genre NOT the old visigoths and the other crap.
But no it's not more then a musical genre and a subculture as I guess you by that means your "dark personality" and other Gothic things, as I have said before Goth and Gothic is two very different things. Goth = The Goth subculture and the musical genre. Gothic = The architecture, "dark" feelings and poems and such other also known as Dark Romantic within the scene. |
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Oct 10, 2008 01:30 pm
Edited : Oct 10, 2008 01:54 pm |
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You said "I read your post but they were all pretty damn irrelevant,"
If I would have posted links to sites talking about satanism, witchcraft, pharmaceutical definitions or various other random topics I could very easily see where you could justify saying that they were irrelevant.
Also you say "as Goth as this topic was supposed to talk about is the Goth subculture and the musical genre NOT the old visigoths and the other crap."
How did you deduce this from the original question, "What is Goth to you?"
And you continue with "But no it's not more then a musical genre and a subculture as I guess you by that means your "dark personality" and other Gothic things,
I quote, "The goth subculture has associated tastes in music, aesthetics, and fashion, whether or not all individuals who share those tastes are in fact members of the goth subculture. Gothic music encompasses a number of different styles. Common to all is a tendency towards a lugubrious, mystical sound and outlook. Styles of dress within the subculture range from deathrock, punk, androgynous, Victorian, some Renaissance and medieval style clothes, or combinations of the above, most often with black attire, makeup and hair."
"New subcultures emerged, or became more popular, some of them being conflated with the goth subculture by the general public and the popular media. This conflation was primarily owing to similarities of appearance, social customs, and the fashions of the subcultures, rather than the musical genres of the bands associated with them. As time went on, the term was extended further in popular usage, sometimes to define groups that had neither musical nor fashion similarities to the original gothic subculture."
You finished with "as I have said before Goth and Gothic is two very different things. Goth = The Goth subculture and the musical genre. Gothic = The architecture, "dark" feelings and poems and such other also known as Dark Romantic within the scene."
Regarding this please refer to my first answer on this topic :D |
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| Oct 10, 2008 02:38 pm |
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| As I said your links were almost all of them irrelevant, as most of them put the focus on the GOTHIC era and it's stuff NOT the modern subculture. |
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| Oct 10, 2008 03:11 pm |
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Hmm... I guess this means that you are unable to answer the questions that I have asked you in the past couple replies that I made. Nor have you been able to provide any information to justify yourself in saying everyone but you is wrong about what goth is to each individual.
You say that "most of them put the focus on the GOTHIC era and it's stuff NOT the modern subculture." You are terribly mistaken which only proves to me that you did not read the last link that I provided. Which is absolutely fine if you do not wish to educate yourself on the goth subculture in its entire form.
So I guess it is safe to say that the intellectual debate between us can now be brought to a close until you can provide facts that support your opinion.
I will be out of town over the weekend. If you wish to contradict anything else I have said, this will provide you with at least the next 2 days to provide me and everyone else with proof of your claims. Have a great weekend! |
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| Oct 10, 2008 03:54 pm |
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Oct 13, 2008 01:16 pm
Edited : Oct 13, 2008 01:18 pm |
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Okay... for starters I did not say that ALL of my links were about the goth subculture.
Second.. I did agree with you that goth is a subculture and a music genre. But I disagree with you when you say that is ONLY what it is.
How can you sit there and tell me that it has nothing to do with the dark nature of some people??? Have you actually sat down and listened to or read the lyrics of some of the songs???
Snakey lines invade each person
Watch the red line creeping upwards
Watch the sanity line weaken
The volcanic depths of Hades' ocean
Bubble under, these crazed eruptions
It wriggles and wrythes and bites within,
Just below the sweating sun
I wondered when this would happen again
Now I watch the red line, reach that number again
The blood in our veins and the brains in our head .....
Drink the water with jagged glass
Eat the cactus with bleeding mouth
or how about these lyrics??
A duel of personalities,
That stretch all true realities.
That keep calling me,
They keep calling me,
Keep on calling me,
They keep calling me.
How can you say that there is not some darkness in these lyrics??
And.. to say that there is no influence whatsoever from the Romantic Goth scene is just absolutely preposterous! For crying out loud... Listen to any of the lyrics from The Cure. It oozes with dark romance.
I read thoroughly the link that you posted. Btw thanks!! It was a great read.
But in the end, even you have to admit that a person must have some form of love, fascination or intrigue for the "dark side" in order to listen and appreciate the music and style.
If you play the music for a person who lives in a world where it's always sunshine and unicorns crapping rainbows out of their butt they are less likely to appreciate it, and more likely to try and have you committed into an insane asylum. |
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| Oct 13, 2008 01:44 pm |
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After reading through some more recent posts on this subject, I want to take a moment to remind you of something that you posted to someone else..
"lil_emo_girl: Gothic and Goth is TWO different things. Goth is a musical based subculture and a musical genre, nothing else. While Gothic is the architecture, writings, feelings and such. So no you're post is wrong if you still means that Goth is about a way of life and shit."
What struck me as comical and somewhat hypocritical was your statement of Gothic is writings, feelings and such. What do you think song lyrics are?? Uh... they are writings and feelings and such. :D |
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| Oct 13, 2008 03:10 pm |
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Yeah lyrics is probably based in a way by emotions, but that's not what qualifies Goth Rock or it's subgenres, it's the way it SOUNDS that qualifies it as goth rock and such.
And why did you have a lyrics from NIN they're not Goth or a subgenre of it.
But yes I agree that a person in some way must have a some "love" for some "darker" things to enjoy the music and enjoy the subculture. |
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| Oct 13, 2008 03:47 pm |
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LOL! I don't have any lyrics from NIN on here. I posted lyrics from Siouxsie And The Banshees "92 Degrees" and Joy Division "Dead Souls."
You are very much right. It's not the lyrics that qualify the genre. But if you overlook the words when you listen to the song, then you may as well be listening to muzak. (elevator music)
So, now that we have posted and posted and posted again. In the end, I think we both agree on the same things and perhaps you did not realize it.
Am I correct? |
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| Oct 13, 2008 05:21 pm |
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Yes a bit like that indeed.
But still I do not think that you should mix Dark Romanticism with Goth to be the same as then we will have the Gothic Metal and other genre people to start calling themselves Goths again. |
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